What are the steps/plot-points of the Sequel Story?

Okay... there are a few things that need to be said about the Hero's Journey.

First, it is not a writing tool, it is an analysis tool, hence its inherent ambiguity. If you're trying to write a HJ story, you're doing it wrong. You're really thinking about the Writer's Journey or the Hollywood Formula. HJ is not paint by numbers, contrary to popular belief.

Second, there is no Post HJ story. There is merely one HJ followed by another. The Call is a problem that needs solving. The Elixer and the Master of Both Worlds is the solution and its application. If a story ends on Apotheosis, it is either incomplete or is really a Return. Both the solution and its application can outlive the one who discovers it. And failure is always an option.

Third, Gurren Lagann is a Reconstruction of a Deconstruction of a time honored story structure common to Japanese Anime. The Gaint Robot Story popularized by Gundam, parodied by Macross, and Deconstructed by Evangelion. In all its forms, it is classic HJ, including the Master bit where the hero leaves his power behind to return to a normal life; or become his true self, ala OO.

Fourth, the HJ takes different forms depending on one's social setting and age. The fact that death is more probable as one gets older doesn't mean there's any more inherent Apotheosis, or that the story can end prematurely without being poorly written. The fact that most HJ stories deal with maturity speaks more of its typical Target Audience rather than its intent or structure. The fact that the "Post" HJ story appears when ending a series speaks more of the intent of the author than the intent of the tool, and is often yet another case of Raising the Stakes.

posted almost 8 years ago

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Joshua Wall‭

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I would challenge your assertion that the journey is a metaphor for maturation. In today's highly (one might almost say pathologically) individualistic society we do tend to think that the story is all about me: the hero is heroic for the hero's own sake. But the classic hero's journey is not about the hero acting for the hero's sake, but the hero acting for the sake of the community.

The hero leaves the community (in some cases is exiled from the community) and faces various ordeals to win a boon for the sake of the community, after which they are welcomed back into the community (or, in the tragic version, cannot return).

This is then a complete arc. The hero is reintegrated into the community and the community itself is safe. And they all lived happily ever after.

Or at least until there is another threat and the hero is called upon once again.

And in fact the super-hero movies all follow this formula. X-Men, Ghostbusters, Spiderman, all begin with exile and end with acceptance and reintegration.

This is not a maturation plot. It is an exile and return plot. The maturation plot may be a subtype, in the sense that the immature are, to one extent or another, exiled, and must demonstrate maturity to be welcomed back. The teenage years are years of exile. But there is no post-return plot, other than to be exiled again, which is then a repetition of the hero's journey.

As a tribal species, exile is our greatest threat and our greatest fear, loneliness our greatest agony. To be unwelcome around the fire is to be cast out into the wilderness, to the cold, the dark, and the wolves. Those who are cast out, and those who voluntarily leave for the sake of the tribe, share a common consummation: the return.

posted almost 8 years ago

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Mark Baker‭

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Let me approach this another way. The idea of a maturation plot occurs in more than one of the various schemas for classifying plots by type. Those schemas divide plots into multiple types, but there are different numbers of types in each.

Heros's journey, on the other hand is not part of a classification schema for plots, it is proposed as the archetype of all plots. If we accept this as true, then all of the plot types in the various plot classification schemas, including the maturation plot, are all hero's journey.

So, if someone proposes that all hero's journey plots are maturation plots, they are saying one of two things:

1. All plots are maturation plots, since the hero's journey is a maturation plot and is the archetype of all plots. Therefore there are no other types of plot other than maturation, and therefore the answer to your question is no.

2. There are various types of plots, maturation is one of them, and the hero's journey is a maturation plot, therefore the hero's journey is not the archtype of all plots but just another name for the maturation plot. In that case, the answer to your question is to choose one of the plot typing schemas that includes the maturation plot and pick from all the other types it offers.

There is, of course, a third alternative, which is that John Truby is wrong and the hero's journey is the archetype of all plots and the maturation plot is only one type of hero's journey. One test for this would be to decide if the instances of post-hero's-journey plots that you cite actually fit the hero's journey archetype or not.

I am not familiar with all of them, but Iron Man 2 certainly seems to fit the hero's journey, though perhaps with an incomplete arc. It begins with Stark the hero of the community but facing the ultimate exile of death because the suit is poisoning him. Then comes the call to adventure when he is attacked by Vanco. The wise man appears in the form of Fury. Stark receives a gift that makes his quest possible--his father's reactor plans. He undergoes an ordeal and saves the community. But the arc in incomplete in the sense that he is left exiled from Shield. This is to set up the following films, of course. But it is absolutely classic hero's journey stuff. So, not post hero's journey at all.

Part of the issue here may also be what we mean by maturation. In a classical tribal society, maturity had a clear definition. You were mature when you were ready to take on adult responsibilities within the community. But in a society so individualistic that few people regard themselves as having any responsibility at all to the community, the definition of mature is hard to define, and we do see many adults living what are essentially extended childhoods. In such a society, it would be easy enough to define all personal development as maturation.

And if you do that, then all plots do indeed become maturation plots (unless you ascribe the McKee's assertion that people don't change and that a story reveals character rather then changing it). But if that is the case, you are not redefining the hero's journey or any of the common plot classification schemas, you are simply redefining maturation. And if that is what you are doing, then the answer to your question is again no, since there are no plots that are not maturation plots. (This is clearly not what you are saying, but it is part of trying to account for the view that you ascribe to John Truby.)

posted almost 8 years ago

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Mark Baker‭

4381 reputation 12 1104 745 58