Averting Bathos

Bathos is not the mere fact of a serious moment being followed by a light one. It is an intrusion of a cheap vulgar laugh into a dramatic scene. It undermines the seriousness of the stakes, the drama of the scene, the meaningfulness of your story. It says "don't take any of this too seriously." Which is why it is criticised in the Marvel Universe films - it's as if the writers hesitate to commit to what they've created. They start a crescendo of emotion, get frightened by the drama and break it with a laugh instead of letting the crescendo reach its climax.

Bathos can also be used intentionally to achieve the same effect, but that is not what you're looking for. You can read more about bathos on Wikipedia and on LiteraryDevices.

@KeithMorrison, speaking of the United 232 pilot, provides an excellent example of humour that does not undermine the drama of the situation: "You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?" Nothing about this joke says "don't take this too seriously". The opposite is true. You can hear an undercurrent of fear in that sentence, and the fact that this fear is controlled with humour builds the tension of the scene rather than breaking it.

Erich Maria Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front provides countless examples of similar humour. On it's very first page the soldiers get double rations because half of them died, and what was the cook supposed to do with the extra food? When characters start seeing the humour in such a situation, as a reader you know things are bad.

In both above examples, I wouldn't expect the readers to laugh. The situation is too tense. Laughter is a release. Here there is humour in the situation, but there is no release. Roberto Benigni in La Vita e Bella explores this at great length: first there is romantic comedy, the jokes make you laugh. Then comes the Holocaust, and those same jokes put you on the edge of your seat, mocking the nazis is terrifying because of the danger, because you know what's going on. Finally,

there comes the tank. And you laugh, because this is a joke you did not expect, and because now you are allowed relief - the horror is over. And you cry too, because now you can release all pent-up emotion, and there's plenty to cry about.

So there's your answer: not every bit of humour undermines the seriousness of the situation. As @Llewellyn states, it depends both on the characters, and on the kind of jokes. But above all else, you want to avoid the kind of jokes that say "don't take this situation too seriously". Because the "situation" is the story you're trying to tell. You want it to be taken seriously. (It's fine if you don't want your story to be taken too seriously - consider comedies. But from your question it appears that you in particular, for this particular story, want it to be taken seriously.)

posted about 5 years ago

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Galastel‭

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To build on Galastel's point, bathos is not simply about the juxtaposition of tones. It is about the unworthiness of the emotion expressed to the event that has occurred. So if you present a serious event, the death of a child, say, and then follow it with the emotion appropriate to the loss of a tooth, that is bathos because the emotion is not worthy of the moment.

It is often unintentional. The writer is simply not capable of dealing with the event they have described and they say something cheap or vulgar when they should say something perceptive and profound. That something perceptive and profound may well be to have characters tell a joke. Telling jokes is part of how people handle grimm or stressful situations. (But, as we know, it is possible to tell the wrong joke, which is one of the worst social gaffes you can commit.) But as long as the joke that the writer inserts here is true to how humans would joke as such a time, the emotion implicit in the joke is worthy of the moment and so not bathetic.

But it can also be used satirically. Here the intention is to mock the seriousness with which the preceding event is taken. The insertion of an emotion unworthy of the moment is here used to suggest that the moment is not actually worthy of the emotion with which is it usually received.

The MCU may possibly have a bit of both. The conceit on which they are built is monstrously silly, after all. There is a lot of wink wink, nudge nudge toward the audience to assure us that the writers, the producers, the actors, the directors, the guys who make the sandwiches on set, all know that this is monstrously silly. It would be completely unwatchable without that acknowledgment. (As opposed to almost entirely unwatchable, as it is in its current form.) It is a hard line to walk (see the problems with the DC films) and so it occasionally falls into unintentional bathos and sometimes engages in deliberate satiric bathos. The death of Tony Stark in End Game is ludicrously bathetic because it is manifestly arbitrary which blows kill and which do not in this universe. The death is inserted solely to suggest heroic sacrifice (and because Downey's contract is up) and we all know this. So we are asked to treat a piece of silly emotional manipulation as a great heroic/dramatic moment. It is bathetic in the worst way.

But there is nothing in what you are proposing to write that in inherently bathetic. As long as the jokes you insert express an emotion worthy of the moment, you will avoid bathos. But notice how I expressed that: it is not about the jokes being worthy of the moment, it is about the emotion that the jokes express being worthy of the moment. High emotion often expresses itself in jokes. Clueless and unworthy emotion often expresses it itself in different jokes. It is the worthiness of the emotional state revealed by the joke that is told that determines if the moment is bathetic or not.

posted about 5 years ago

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Mark Baker‭

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I'd say it depends. It depends on the kind of humour you're planning to insert, on the characters, and on the specific situations.

Slapstick in the middle of a death scene would probably be too much. People making joking comments, on the other hand, or finding humour in the situation, as explained by @Keith Morrison is only realistic.

However, it also depends a bit on the type of characters. Some characters are more serious and would think joking completely inappropriate. Others might have a tendency to treat everything as a joke, even in the bleakest of circumstance. Most people find themselves somewhere in the middle. Joking is a way to relieve tension, not just in the story or for the reader, but also for the characters (or people in real life). After all, there's such a thing as gallows humour.

Again, it depends a bit on the situation. Say, your characters just survived a gruesome battle. Then there's nothing wrong with them goofing off afterwards. Maybe not the ones who lost a friend or loved one, but the others will want to celebrate still being alive.

At funerals, people tend to be somber and sometimes will cry. But often, at the shared meal afterwards, those same people will chat merrily, crack jokes, fondly remember the person they lost - there will still be grief, but also laughter.

posted about 5 years ago

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Llewellyn‭

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