Can non-English-speaking characters use wordplay specific to English?
Would it be jarring if in an original (non-translated) story, the characters, who don't speak English in-universe, use "untranslatable" wordplay/puns that are specific to English?
By "untranslatable" I mean that if a pun is translated literally into another language, it's not apparent why it's funny, and you need to explain why it's funny in the original language: see here (archived version) for some examples.
Arguments against non-English speakers using English-specific wordplay:
- Lack of realism can hurt fiction: granted, this applies more to fiction that tries to be realistic, or to the specific readers know more about a technical field than you do, and in my case, I'm not writing for an audience of linguists.
- I can't shake off the gut feeling that it just feels gimmicky: it's almost an "added" in translation, because there is no equivalent in the foreign language, the characters don't know English, and I'm not trying to adapt existing wordplay into English because it's not a translation. There is no logical justification, so to speak, for that English-specific pun to exist, if not for the sake of it.
Arguments in favor of poetic licenses:
- Storytelling is about telling a logically coherent story, not realism: this is probably the most compelling argument.
- The audience doesn't care: the average layperson doesn't know or care about the minutiae of translating wordplay, they care more about a good story.
- It's restrictive otherwise: taken to the logical extreme, it would mean that original stories can only be written in the language that is spoken by the characters, because there are many words that have a deeper meaning to them, that just cannot be reproduced in other languages. For example, Greek has four words for "love", and while you can translate "eros" as "lust", it's not the same.
The audience probably doesn't care, but I definitely do...
> Can non-English-speaking characters use wordplay specific to English? Assuming the question is from the perspective o …
5y ago
A speaker of a foreign language can create a pun, or some sort of oddly constructed phrase in the reader's language by m …
5y ago
Yes, non-English-speaking characters can use English wordplay. For example, none of the people in Shakespeare's Julius …
5y ago
One of the fun parts of learning a language is learning vocabulary, puns, turns of phrase, etc that just don't translate …
5y ago
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Yes, non-English-speaking characters can use English wordplay.
For example, none of the people in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar are really speaking English, yet there is no problem that there are puns, some meter, and even a little rhyming—all in English.
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Can non-English-speaking characters use wordplay specific to English?
Assuming the question is from the perspective of a writer, rather than of a reviewer or teacher, the answer is that it's a decision for the author to make. As others mentioned, it can certainly be done and there are existing examples. The actual question about wordplay doesn't stray from the principal question very much.
Would it be jarring [to] use "untranslatable" wordplay/puns that are specific to English?
It certainly could, and this question has an answer saying so, as well as other discussion on what is awkward and not, plus general thoughts about in-story language use. When you say jarring, I come to think of Jar-Jar Binks: Characters can be found jarring also when not using English wordplay.
In the end, I think it matters more how well it fits the story than how well it translates. Puns are commonly frowned upon (a.k.a. dad jokes). Would the story work with a more general joke or a word of wisdom? Is it a re-occurring theme or a one-time thing?
The audience probably doesn't care, but I definitely do...
I seem to read the question as if you already have the answer here. Did you say you're learning towards "no pun"?
Even your pro-wordplay arguments are diminished as "poetic license" rather than "good writing". Does your storytelling benefit from this particular pun? Is it too restricted without it?
Of course, in that case the answer may as well be: There's no harm in trying the unconventional. Leave your comfort zone and do the unexpected!
I hope this answer can help writers of any inclination to let the story go beyond strict rules.
PS. The prompt when adding questions on this site says: "We prefer questions that can be answered, not just discussed." Even though it was up-voted, IMHO this question opens for giving advice rather than for finding facts. With the detailed research OP already did, an alternative, more fact based, question could have been "Are there any other factors and arguments to consider?" or "Please assist me in finding literature examples where this occurs."
This post was sourced from https://writers.stackexchange.com/a/45482. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.
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A speaker of a foreign language can create a pun, or some sort of oddly constructed phrase in the reader's language by mistake.
In Phillip K. Dick's novel, "The Man in the High Castle," a Japanese character, Mr. Tagomi, says, "Fleece-seeking cortical response." It takes another character a second to realize that Tagomi means "woolgathering."
It seems to me that one could have a foreign speaker make unintentional puns, or try to translate puns in his own language literally with humorous results. This gimmick requires an explanation and can be used too many times.
This post was sourced from https://writers.stackexchange.com/a/45468. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.
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One of the fun parts of learning a language is learning vocabulary, puns, turns of phrase, etc that just don't translate to your mother tongue.
Any English learner (any learner of any language) is going to listen for those special things and use them as soon as the opportunity comes up (as long as s/he feels comfortable enough to try).
Part of the fun for a native speaker who is friends with a non-native speaker is listening for the times when the latter gets these phrases just a little bit wrong. There's even an American cartoonist married to a German woman who delights in periodic strips gently poking fun at her errors (presumably with her approval).
When we learn other languages, we dutifully memorize vocabulary and grammar. But we don't really know the language until we can say things you just can't say in any other language (and until we have dreams in the new language, but that's for another question).
Your near-fluent characters will not only use the words and phrases you ask about, but likely go out of their way to learn about them and to work to master them. How they do this will vary by each speaker's personality, the natives they speak with, and context. But it will happen.
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