Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

Should this introductory quotation be translated, untranslated, or dropped?

+0
−0

When I first wrote "Gawain's Guilt-Girdle" (14 lines of verse) I introduced it with a short (modernized/translated) quotation from the Middle English work Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. I think my intent at the time was to point to that original work as source material, to give a feel for the alliterative verse form of that work (which is slightly hinted at in my writing), to establish the setting (archaic and heroic), and to give something of an academic feeling. (Incidentally, the quote might also communicate that the source poem is better, expressing some humility and encouraging people to read that poem.)

Here is how it currently stands:

"This is the band of that blame I bear on my neck,
This is the humbling and the loss that I laugh to have
Of cowardice and coveting that I have caught there;
This is the token of untruth that I am taken in
And I must needs it wear while I may last"
      Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
      lines 2506-2510 (modernized/translated)

This sash of shame that knights now wear in jest
to little make my failing, strikes its knife
across a heart that feels its heavy blame.
How grave a truth may simple cloth proclaim!
This lively, lady's green recalls that test
of faith and truth, my choice of breath, not life.
Yet knights would make this band a sign of fame.
They mirror shameful marks in light good will
and seek to mend my fault, as one might fill
cracks in a hero's stone with bitter lime.
None but God's blood could kill this evil name
I placed upon myself by lying then--
faithless at last, if better than all men
who walk the earth in this now darker time.

In hindsight I am wondering if the quote should be left untranslated (source):

'Þis is þe bende of þis blame I bere in my nek,
Þis is þe laþe and þe losse þat I laȝt haue
Of couardise and couetyse þat I haf caȝt þare;
Þis is þe token of vntrawþe þat I am tan inne,
And I mot nedez hit were wyle I may last;

(The untranslated form makes it significantly less accessible. The work is not intended as light reading, but it is also not targeted specifically at readers familiar with Middle English. If untranslated, it would be expected that most readers would primarily only gain a sense of archaic language. The untranslated form would be more academic and more accurate as well as more archaic.)

Alternatively, the quotation could be dropped. I am hesitant to simply drop the quote (even though it does not add that much to the writing itself), but I could be convinced that dropping it would be best.

Another concern is that my own modernization/translation is inaccurate and/or inadequately modernized. For comparison here are two competent translations:

"this is the bond of the blame that I bear in my neck,
this is the harm and the loss I have suffered,
the cowardice and covetousness in which I was caught,
the token of my covenant in which I was taken.
And I must needs wear it so long as I live,
(Translator: Michael West; 1898)

"this that I bear in my neck is the badge of this blame.
This is the evil and the loss that I have got
from the cowardice and covetousness that I showed there.
This is the token of untruth that I am taken in,
and I must needs wear it while I may last;
(Translator: W. A. Neilson; 1999 (PDF))

(I seem to recall that I based "humbling" on a note in either a transcription or translation, but "laugh to have" was [I seem to recall] based simply on approximate transliteration and seems to be noticeably incorrect [so should be corrected]. "untruth" is meant in the sense of "unfaithfulness" ("let us be true to our oaths")--more "untroth", like in "betrothed"--but the particular case did involve a lie, so even the modern use would not be particularly inaccurate.)


Providing general guidelines for when an introductory quotation is useful and when such should be translated would make an answer more generally helpful to later readers.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

This post was sourced from https://writers.stackexchange.com/q/8821. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

2 answers

+1
−0

In general, for a popular work it is bad style to include quotes in a foreign language. Most of your readers will not understand them. An old enough flavor of English is a "foreign language" for all practical purposes. Modern readers can struggle through Shakespeare, but much before that and I'd translate.

If you were writing a scholarly work, or a work intended for people familiar with both languages, I'd give a completely different answer.

If you are trying to make some point that is obscured by a translation, you might give the original along with a translation. For example, if you have some point that hinges on the precise meaning of a word in this other language, or if you have a comment about rhyme or meter in the original, etc.

As to the details of the translation: All I can there is to use the best translation you can make or find. What else could one say?

From your post I take it this is not a scholarly work and you are not analyzing the original text, just using it as background for your own writing. So I'd just go with a decent translation and leave it at that. If a reader cares enough to want to see the original, they can look it up.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

This post was sourced from https://writers.stackexchange.com/a/8843. It is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0.

0 comment threads

+0
−0

The best translations I've seen (Dante's Commedia, Beowulf) have the original and the translation together. That way you can read what the sense of the text is, but if you want, you have the original for check (or so you can translate it yourself if you can).

If the quoted verse improves yours, by all means include it.

History
Why does this post require moderator attention?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

0 comment threads

Sign up to answer this question »